Lucrezia a far more compelling character than the Showtime version. The Borgias was phenomenal. Borgia: faith and fear drove me nuts from the first scene because everyone had a different accent and the American ones especially stood out and were distracting to the point of irritation.
The cast of The Borgias was far better, costuming, music, etc. I especially fell in love with the chemistry between Cesere and Lucrezia — those two actors had amazing chemistry and you really believed in the sheer depth of love the two had for each other through everything….
The man who plays Pope Borgias is especially ridiculous with his American accent and Lucrezia is portrayed as a whiny, obnoxious child some of the worst acting. Apparently you disregarded everything that was critiqued up top. Rome was a diverse community and people had different accents, and to show a brother and sister actually having intercourse was never proved.
Although John Dorman accent was a bit of a challenge, he definitely outperformed Jeremy Irons pretend pope. But to be fair, we are all entitled to our opinions and that was yours.
Well it appears that casting and performance in Borgia received far more lauds and appreciations from the people of the craft, …but you know better, right!? So, so, so, so terrible. Comparing the two is like comparing a school play that kind of play where one single set serves as papal meeting room, vatican interior, dining room and every interior place you could imagine to a full-on masterpiece production with a solid good script, solid acting and amazing, believable characters.
Have you not seen the show at all? The slow transformation of Cesare and Lucrezia, from mere pouns into their historical conterparts, the italian wars, the general ambience of feuding families, Savonarola and the accurate depiction of Florence and all the other italian states, the dialogues, instruments, art of that time…all those small details where nothing but accurate.
As a script writer and producer I know how hard it is to do a show, especially a historical one like this. But Neil Jordan really captured the esence of that family, that corruption, that power. In casting, sets, costumes, scripts, historical detail The Borgias did get a lot of things right, some even more accurate in depiction than Borgia, like the Tudors, which also did get many historical events, dialogues, conversations and speeches right but nobody says that, nobody recognizes that and of course the soundtrack.
I came here because I am trying to figure out… was there really an attack on Gulia, and was Cesare really accused of murdering his son, or are those totally made up? I like both productions! I find the Jeremy Irons one a lot easier to understand. As an American, I found the American accent in the Canal version to be ridiculous, not mention could they have picked a more New York cop looking guy if they t tried!
The accents of the rest of the cast was less annoying, but as a born and bred New Yorker, come on…talk about a melting pot. In the Borgia household you have a father with an American accent, one brother with an English accent, another brother with a French accent, etc. It just puts me off! Accents aside, I like them both! You are commenting using your WordPress. You are commenting using your Google account.
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Skip to content. Showtime Which was better? My main sources for the history were: Bradford, Sarah. Viking, New York. Share this: Twitter Facebook.
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Andrew Bell. July 3, at pm. August 19, at am. Luckily, his children are equally ambitious. Written by grantss. In the last two episodes of the season, if you look closely, you can see that the left arm is slightly thicker than the right underneath his sleeve.
Previous What monsters do you put in your extra deck? Next Writing an Essay on Macbeth. I just do not understand why people were capable of such hideous acts of evil and why they did not realise that it was evil? How on earth could they reconcile this acts with their supposed devout religious beliefs??? Why was torture used without a second thought?
So many questions about humanity and religion. Why did it take so long for us humans to develop a moral compass, and to value compassion? Still, as I write this I am aware that many countries do still perpetrate such acts in the name of religion…. Actually your earlier question got me thinking about writing an entry on exactly this quesiton, so your follow-up has helped me make up my mind.
Next entry or at least one of the next couple I will talk about philosophical discussions of judicial torture in the 18th century, and how Western society transitioned from thinking of torture as useful and commonplace to thinking of it as cruel and unnecessary. Should be an interesting topic! That will be fascinating! Is there some way I can register with this blog and have an update sent to me when you have posted the new entry?
Thanks for an excellent suggestion. One history trivia question: What is that huge pine cone thingie in the courtyard at the vatican?
Your postings on Machiavelli and the Borgias shows are quite enjoyable. And after reading your mementoes I had to watch it again. But, alas, Shellbarger did mess up — would Cesare have allowed even a supposed cadet branch of the Orsisi to get so close to him?
No bother, Joe! I only looked it up because of your post. Oh dear. I have just noticed my typo in the comment I posted with the link about the Pinecone. Sorry about that! I must be more careful in future! Call me a nerd, but I would love a running commentary on the historical aspects and minutia. Borgia: Season 1 Review said:. Borgia: an exercise in historical fantasy - The Earthian Hivemind said:. For a detailed comparison between the two, see this. Having the 3-season-Borgia package on […].
I really enjoyed this, thank you. I have only recently discovered the Netflix series, Borgia. Thank you for your well written article. I, too, have struggled with overly criticizing historically based productions, and have come to appreciate the limits and power of this genre. I have not seen The Borgias by Showtime, but am convinced it may be a worthwhile investment of time.
Love the heck out of it. At first I was underwhelmed by the lower-budget look, and found the hodge-podge of accents distracting. But once I got used to it I found it much much deeper and more engaging. I have watched both versions and although they are both historically inaccurate, there is NO comparison between the two! The acting is abismal and it is astounding and disturbing that viewers are incapable of identifying such terrible acting!
There were very few scenes that I considered well acted with reactions being comical most of the time! The dialogue is deplorable, not even attempting to simulate the 14th century.
One thing I find unesesary, are all of the sex scenes! I fast forward past all of them becasue I find them tedious and a waste of valuable program time! I find it a bit unfair of you to use a promotionnal poster to point out that Lucrezia yellow dress is inaccurate : that dress never appears in the show itself, which is by the way superior in historicity for the costume.
I am nearly finished the first season of Borgia and after having seen The Borgias I was troubled at first with this one but now I am hooked and cannot stop watching, but of course have to as I need to sleep.
My husband who normally hates historical shows is also enjoying this immensely although the violence is dreadful. Rome, for all its insertions of extra sexual relationships, is wonderfully accurate on the social fabric of the society, so highly recommended for that. Thank you for your blog. But is really BFF very accurate with dates? What a wonderful article. Spot on and so incisive, I have had a long passion for the Borgia; and can only commend you in championing the Borgia series on Netflix, far superior to its inferior cousin.
I believe it to be realistic and as near to the mark as we are going to get. The great problem I see with any interpretation of TV History is that we view it from 21st Century eyes, not from how it really should be seen.
Life was far more bloody, brutal and brief than it has ever been. Very astute examination of the two shows. From now on I will just link to this page. I agree with the commentators that this is an excellent article comparing the respective virtues of both series.
As the writer mentions, The Borgias is much more visually sumptuous of the two. Also, The Borgias has Jeremy Irons. He has the power almost to carry the series on his own and vastly more watchable than John Dorman.
Dorman, whom viewers may recall as a repugnant police chief from the Wire, is likeable enough as an actor, but fails at times to convince as a man of the Renaissance, let alone the Supreme Pontiff. This to me is key in any good historical drama: whether I can feel the writers are devoted to exposing what is fascinating about the period — this in addition to making good narrative.
The Borgias in contrast is devoted to costume and the exposition of moral decadence — in short all that is titillating about the past but not the past itself. It seems to me the writers do not particularly care the stories are set in Renaissance Rome; they could just as easily be set in the Restoration English court or France during the Terror.
The Borgias had no one, which meant I had no emotional involvement in any of the characters and is why I dropped it after about 6 -7 episodes please correct me if such a character was introduced in later seasons! They also provide moral compass by which we can judge the rest not merely through modern sensibilities but contemporary mores as well. Yes, it was common knowledge the Pope had a mistress, yes simony was rampant, but yes too many people found this distressing and proof of an urgent need for reform.
This is the same age that spawned Martin Luther and Erasmus after all. Still, there is a difference between informing the audience of how bad it was, perhaps by implying the violence as opposed to showing it in graphic detail.
But this complaint goes for nearly every historical drama on television at the moment. Likewise the sex scenes are almost entirely gratuitous. I realize that makes me sound awfully prudish, but they almost never drive the narrative forward and are a blatant ratings grab. Again the series is hardly alone in this. Watching The Borgias love Jeremy Irons tried Faith and Fear — too graphic for my refined sensibilities, lol , and just finished a book on Lucrezia Borgia. Purists must suffer so.
Really appreciate your encompassing and flexible attitude to historical accuracy. Pop the popcorn and enjoy the show! What book on Lucrezia did you read? Excellent write up! I have to agree with the above poster; on my first attempt, I turned it off and decided not to watch it graphic torture scenes. I later went back to it and watched it through. SO glad I did! I totally agree with the analysis in this article.
I ended up watching both series more than once and have a very hard time deciding which I like better because they both have their own merits. The only additional thing I wish this article would have addressed is the vast differences between the two Giulia Farneses; one having a sweet and calm demeanor while the other was loud and demanding with a bad tamper.
I think Borgia was better in terms of accuracy and reflecting the time, but The Borgias was better in settings and good costumes. So why did Juan get everything if he was the 2nd son of a commoner? His mistress was also active in the political affairs of the Vatican, which did not sit well with the traditionalists. Sure they were corrupt, but they had their traditions. I agree Della Rovere was a generic oversimplified character, and they should have played more on his French allegiances.
Della Rovere wanted the papacy and France supported him because they wanted to reclaim Naples, they just got outplayed and outbid by those that aligned themselves with Borgia, like Ascenio Szorza and the deep pockets of the Medici. I would like to have seen how it all played out, especially with their version of Della Rovere. How he would have manipulated it for Piccolomini to be the next Pope, and then himself.
I too wish there had been more of the series. But there will be more tales of Borgias in time… there always are. I agree with your assessment completely. My only issue with BFF is the horrible acting.
John Doman delivers his lines so horribly at times. I have only seen BFF. On Netflix. I was suffering withdrawal from Marco Polo, which me and wife watched bit seasons in two weeks. It is so gripping!
And behold. Watched every episode in 3 weeks. And will watch again. For me, no expert in anything but my trade. In content and context. And I felt pain at finishing it. But , it pulls you into these lives, times and Cesare has you rooting for his accomplishments, from his on spot cunning. The last episode brought tears for both their ending.
I hope anyone here can refer any others on this excellent level? I find I have exactly the same perspective as ExUrbe; too much accuracy would make the story unwatchable. For me, the biggest inaccuracies I notice are the teeth. In NEARLY all these types of shows, teeth are 21st century white at a time when having any teeth left past the age 30 was remarkable.
Do I want to watch my heroes and heroines with nasty teeth? No, accuracy be damned. Our perception of attractiveness has changed, and I am not insulted when actors conform to modern definitions in order to relate how comely their characters were perceived by their contemporaries.
The positives of both far outweigh negatives…which for me are all due to the medium itself. I think his work is competent and dynamic. Somewhat reminiscent of another pair of Johns: Huston and Hurt. This article, and all the posts following have cleared up quite of a bit of my questions. I noticed immediately the question of which brother was older. I also questioned the pine cone in the square.
Thanks for those tidbits. They do help bring flavor. I have enjoyed many other series and mini-series from this period, and surrounding periods.
But also other historical periods…but for the same reasons Rome Spartacus Camelot Vikings. I think neither Borgia or The Borgias are over-the-top in regards to sex and violence. Contrarily, I would say that I prefer those elements being included somewhat graphically…as an historical lesson. I had not even considered the inverted logging saw as a method of torture until I saw it here.
If the camera were to pan away and just include some sounds of anguish, it would be left to the imagination of the viewer, which has an entirely 21st century view of torture.
These types of scenes are not taken to the lengths of graphic horror movies or pornography…though viewer discretion is advised. So, if you are offended by the explicitness of these scenes, you are free to exercise your discretion and choose another show that fits within your values. Xena must have lived to be years old to interact with the characters she meets.
I still watch because I became a fan of Lucy Lawless after watching Spartacus series. Forget the fact that they paint Leonardo as a swash-buckling action hero. I am an Italian from Rome and I must really say that The Borgias series have made the Roman and Napoletan atmosphere way more spectacular, credential, stronger than Borgia series where you cant feel that real Roman air and urbanism.
And one other major element that I felt was very poor in Borgia series where chosen faces for the historical figures. I study art all my life and I am well educated about the looks of people from that period. Plus here and there you can also hear accents in The Borgias, not only in Borgia. But I dont agree that you should compare historicity of these both series, ofcourse The Borgias have many fictional moments, but that is a necessity, even in the great HBO series Rome they had to put some fictional stories to have a certain linear structure of the story, because in history you cant never follow ones persons story but seeing many other elements at once and that makes the view very confusing in a video.
Maybe Iam criticizing Borgia series too harshly but I just feel that they miss the overall energy of people and Rome and possibly its mostly about the chosen actors that dont convince me and they have a lack of energy in their roles. Which is a shame and paradox when most of the actors in Borgia are Europeans. I played as extras soldier in Borgia in the Pragues studio and I saw that most soldiers were Czech people and using czechs as Romans is like using a scandinavian man as an African man, they are soo different in their mentallity that not even acting would be that convincing.
American would do much better as an Italian than a czech person. Its about the energy thats all wrong. Thank you very much for such an informative post! It was eloquent, witty and extremely interesting. I thought it was very good. I thought it was pretty good, not outstanding but not poor either.
I think it was very understated and controlled. That made me feel a little rocky in the first episodes, which may be what is making some people feel uncomfortable with the acting? Once I got used to it I thought the acting was above par for TV. Thank you for your informative article. I must say that I was a huge fan of the Showtime series. And I understand that was such a large budget comes better actors, costumes, sets, writers etc. But the acting on BFF is some of the worst I have ever seen.
I have looked at the series often for the last three years trying to get past the first 20 minutes of episode one season one. I always find myself turning it off due to frustration with the poor acting. So today I stopped watching episode one and moved onto the second one. I have to tell you even though they may have elaborated more on history etc. The acting just sucks. But I will try based on your review. Keep blogging. I first watched the Showtime Borgia when it came out.
I just discovered the European version and find it far superior than the SHO version. I too enjoy history and found that the European version was more accurate, and believable. I was surprised however that the European version suggests that Juan was dispatched by his sister…. Finally I have been binge watching the European version often viewing 8 hours at time…. Thanks Netflix. Having watched The Borgias religiously as new episodes were released on Sky Atlantic I can safely say that it gave me just the tasting I needed to spark an interest into the threats, debauchery, and everything else that goes with the delights of the Renaissance period.
It was only recently, after finally cracking down on picking up the history books again, I realised that my craving for more was still not satiated, and after a search on Netflix — it seems I have indeed been sated! One thing I will say though, is thank you for confirmation of my suspicions regarding the differences between the two shows, as well as clearing up some questions of my own! I like the Euro one better. The shooting is very dark, which may put some people off, especially in season 1.
I think they were trying to get the feel of the time, with no electric light, but not sure it makes for the best TV. But despite that, the story and development were far better. The script was also far superior, although a bit wordy at times.
The sets were less fancy, but felt more realistic, so you felt like you were in the time period, which is more unto me than a fancy, perfect set. The acting was good, too, better than the American version, I found. Parts of the show are funny. In season 1 of the Euro version, Cesare is like a tortured teenager, not sexy, etc. But his character development is much better, and he gets more attractive starting in season 2.
Thanks for the blog. Just finished all 38 episodes and loved every minute….. Thanks to all with such interesting input! However, the story and characters are completely different. I think the Showtime one is a bit wishy washy to be honest.
The BBC one is more in keeping to what I had read about the family, whereas this later version I did not recognise much at all and was a tad disappointed. Oliver Cotton makes a superb Cesare in my opinion and well worth watching.
Oh my. What an incoherent stream of consciousness here. D Have you even read the article you comment on?
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